Bhavani Arabandi on Making Apprenticeship Simpler

Intro

Welcome to our first interview of many "Making Apprenticeship Simpler" interviews where we dive deep into how to make registered apprenticeship in the United States simpler. Today, we have the pleasure of hosting Bhavani Arabandi, a principal research associate at the Urban Institute and seasoned labor sociologist. With over seven years of experience in the realm of apprenticeships, including her tenure at the Department of Labor, Bhavani brings a wealth of knowledge to the table.

In this episode, Bhavani discusses the complexities and misconceptions surrounding apprenticeships. She emphasizes the need to shift the prevailing "college for all" narrative and advocates for greater awareness and appreciation of apprenticeship programs. Bhavani also shares her insights on how educational systems and employers can collaborate to make apprenticeships more accessible and appealing to students.

Highlights

Here's a series of key insights from the talk:

• Bhavani’s main point: Changing the narrative about "college for all."

• Students’ lack of preparation for college academically.

• Financial problems faced by students, like having to work multiple jobs.

• Insufficient support for students in navigating their educational and career choices.

• Need for a multifaceted approach involving government, educators, and other stakeholders to shift the narrative.

• Importance of exposing students to various apprenticeship opportunities beyond traditional trades.

• Examples of fields where apprenticeships are available: cybersecurity, IT, healthcare, robotics, advanced manufacturing.

• Emphasizing the importance of teachers in changing the career choice narrative.

• The need for visual representation and recognition of successful apprenticeships.

Full Transcript

Patrick Cushing:

All right, Bhavani, thanks for joining us. Can you introduce yourself? And then we'll get right to it.

Bhavani Arabandi:

Sure. My name is Bhavani Arabandi. I'm a principal research associate at Urban Institute. I'm a labor sociologist by training and have worked in apprenticeship for about seven years now, first at the Department of Labor as a program analyst, and then now at Urban Institute in various capacities. But I also direct a lot of projects, work with employers and educators, intermediaries, the government, across several provinces.

Patrick Cushing:

So you've seen apprenticeship from many different landscapes, interact with a whole bunch of different programs. So our one question is, what do you think can be done to make apprenticeships simpler? What's the biggest sort of thing you think the world could take on to make apprenticeship simpler?

Bhavani Arabandi:

The biggest. And it's also the toughest thing. I think we need to change the narrative. Right? We need to change the narrative about college for all. And I think, I've been a college professor myself, and I found a lot of students that are in my classroom are actually not prepared for college in several different ways. One, they lack the preparation academically. You know, they might be in school districts that, you know, might not have the resources and do not have the recommended, like the rigorous training for students. Some could be financial issues.

Bhavani Arabandi:

So they're working. I had a student who was working three jobs while in college full time. How do you expect this, this young person to pay attention to anything that you're doing in classroom? Right? And there's so many other reasons, you know, where students need more supports and they're just not getting them. But the college parallel narrative is so predominant in our society, in our country, that often students feel that's the only choice they have. And, you know, they, first, they don't know that there are choices. And even if they know, they're not sure how to go about it. I think one is to change that narrative, and that change cannot come just from the government or just from educators. It has to be, has to come from several places and constantly.

Bhavani Arabandi:

It cannot be just said one time and hope, oh, there'll be a major change. Right. It has to come consistently from several sources, I think. And students themselves need to be exposed to apprenticeships in a way where they know it's not just the trades. Trades are an amazing opportunity for students to train in, but there's so many other fields, like cybersecurity, IT. I mean, you're part of that as well. Your own company, teachers, apprenticeships, healthcare, robotics, advanced manufacturing, that students do not know much about.

Bhavani Arabandi:

So I think there's a lot of awareness raising that college for all is not the only thing to do, but also, apprenticeship has lots of career opportunities.

Patrick Cushing:

I love that answer because, like you said, it's not like you can't just go change the law to fix that. You can't just go ask for more sponsors. Right. This is a movement you're talking about that has to come from many different places. It doesn't happen overnight. There's a lot of things that have to be in place, a lot of reiterating of the same message. So I'll ask you, if you had one magic wand to address this, what would you do to actually change the narrative? What do you think could help move the needle to move us towards changing the narrative? So it's not just about college for all.

Bhavani Arabandi:

Wow. If I had a magic, I guess I would expose the teachers at the school at much earlier levels, even from middle school to high school, expose them to apprenticeship and other opportunities so then they can advise students in a lot of, how do you say, turning points at students thinking about apprenticeship, about career choices and things like that. I think influencing teachers would be the best way to do this because they. They have a captive audience. Right. The students are already there, but they also have access to administrators, they have access to intermediaries, employers that schools are working with, and also parents. So they can, you know, check with parents as well and change the narrative there as well. So I would.

Bhavani Arabandi:

I think I would start there. I'm not saying it would, but it would, I think, make the deepest impact as well.

Patrick Cushing:

Yeah. No, especially, I mean, so many schools have been assessed on how many students they send to college. You get your college placement rate, right. So starting with kind of breaking down that as the end goal would be one piece. I think the other side of this, I'm gonna. I usually don't weigh into too much on these calls, but I was. I was behind a bus today after dropping my kids off at school, and there was a picture of a woman in her cap and gown. Right? I was thinking, man, that's the image that we're striving for. That's the success.

Patrick Cushing:

You got to college, you got the cap and gown. What would the image be for apprenticeship? It's not quite the same thing, you know, so there's the visual to change of what success looks like. There's the timing. College is really straightforward. You leave school, you go into college the next year, it's really easy to kind of slot people in. There's a location that can be reused. What are the piece of the apprenticeship world has to do to support that? So one part is getting teachers and the schools on board. And what can the apprenticeship world do to kind of fix the system, to make it more in line with the way schools work, give more visuals to change the narrative? Again, it's not one piece. It's a whole bunch of things.

Patrick Cushing:

So I love that you teed that up, because it gave me an excuse to talk about sitting behind the bus and having that image today. So that's it. That's all we're chatting about today. Thank you, Bhavani. I appreciate your time, and we'll work on changing the narrative.

Bhavani Arabandi:

Sounds good. Looking forward to being a partner with you.